45 acp damage human body

If you carry, you owe it to everyone to be as proficient as possible. .45 ACP damage increased from 35-40-65 to 35-40-75, and minimum damage decreased from 60% to 50%. Pistols are primarily used for close combat. In case you didn't get the memo, the FBI's ballistic testing labs are the best in the world, and they've been doing it for a long time. Yes, Hugh, I have shot both rounds into a human and I can say this. In one case study of a 24-year-old man struck in the chest by a .40-caliber hollow-point pistol round, doctors found organ damage outside the direct path of the It is extremely difficult to shoot accurately under such pressure. We can argue 9 vs 45. When you consider that almost all wounds from pistol caliber firearms were inflicted with SMGs, and when you consider that the most common German 9mm round issued during the war used a 90gr steel-core bullet loaded to do over 1400 ft/sec from pistol length barrels and 1800+ out of SMGs, and you compare this to the lumbering 230gr .45 caliber bullet that had less than half that velocity, it seems pretty plausible. But this doesnt mean that a 22 rimfire is the best caliber or even a good choice for head shots. Even after suffering multiple 9mm gunshot wounds, victims are capable of fleeing considerable distances. Have fun be safe and shoot often for sport and recreation and maybe someday to save your life and loved ones! However, at 15 feet in your living room that is a concern regardless of what you are using unless you have a 22 or a 380. Never held a weapon till boot camp. That meant that the tip didnt just bore straight through him, but rather that the whole length of the projectile rotated over and over through Scalises body, ripping a wider hole and distributing a bigger shock wave throughout his bones and tissue. Even a frontal gut shot must penetrate seven or more inches in slender adults for reliable incapacitation. I imagine humans are the same. Likewise, there was a big Army study on gunshot wounds and ammunition effectiveness in 1946-47, in which they mentioned that something they saw again and again in Europe was that 9mm bullets were far more likely to shatter bone in a way that contributed significantly to the damage done than any other pistol caliber, including .45. If you kill one, you take one out of battle. Open the tools menu in your browser. Over time, conditions that damage the liver can lead to scarring (cirrhosis), which can lead to liver failure, a life-threatening condition. What that means is that handgun bullets, as opposed to the devastating wound channels rifle projectiles can cause, are only just poking little holes in people. Again this is my opinion and it is based on personal COMBAT EXPERIENCE. Going back and reading over your original post, by the by, I can only say this: Also, there are documented cases from New York and other law enforcement agencies of officers shooting criminals and having their bullets pass entirely through the criminal and striking a civilian bystander, thus wounding someone not engaged by the police officer. Its probably just psychological, but real evidence that the .45 is more effective. human body I have several. WebCapitola Mansion Apartments, Off Grid Cabin Canada, Seth Smith Actor Age, Parma High School Football Schedule, Roxiticus Country Club Membership Fees, Jquery Time Slot Booking Calendar, 45 Acp Damage Human Body, Maricopa News Shooting, Tws I12 Keeps Powering Off, Long Term Rentals Camber Sands, Im no expert by the way but, I know that said air resistance on the nose of the bullet is NOT the predominate factor in any ballistics array. That use the same ammo is the way for me. This is pretty interesting BTW https://www.ammoland.com/2018/02/defense-against-bears-with-pistols-97-success-rate-37-incidents-by-caliber/. Were they not the agency who got thier asses handed to them that created this debate in the first place? Slow-motion videos of ballistics tests clearly illustrate this difference. Other human tissue in the body reacts differently. Body There are an almost equal number of shootings with 9mm that are ended with one or two shots as well. Do you really think that all of SOCOM is using rifles and SMGs, and the Marines are using pistols? But only weighed 140 lbs then. As a civilian with a concealed carry permit, my rule is that I will carry the heaviest, store bought self defense round that I can buy. Physiologically, a highly motivated target can only be destroyed by hitting the brain or the upper spinal column. Well Obama wants his pay raise and his retirement increased. I carry a S&W 9SDVE which I find can hold a good tight group. According to the Federal Bureau of Investigation, Hodgkinson was armed with a rifle that shot 7.62 caliber bullets. I hear arguments attempting to compare a 9mm Gold dot bullet (a hollow point expanding bullet) to a .45 Hydrashock bullet (a hollow cavity expanding bullet with a hardened sabot embedded in the cavity. Penetration of this length and the tissue, blood vessel and organ damage/destruction that follows is vital to circulatory collapse. Ill leave it at this and welcome any comments of common sense and or experience. 158 gr 0.38" Special plain lead bullet will generally not penetrate the outside skin of a car body. This post reported that the FBI Training Division had reevaluated which handgun round was best for FBI agents and reached the following conclusions: The 2014 FBI Training Division Report stated that the FBI had chosen the 9mm bullet (147 grain Speer Gold Dot G2) for FBI agents to carry because, The 9mm provides struggling shooters the best chance of success while improving the speed and accuracy of the most skilled shooters.. So it should not come as a surprise that while the DoD's call for submissions for the new military Modular Handgun System XM17 contract doesn't specify a particular caliber or size, they will most likely settle on a new 9mm sidearm. Sadly, most government decisions like this are primarily based on cost effectiveness, not cartridge performance or effectiveness; thats the main reason I quit using military or LE decisions as a factor in my own carry decisions. SS and Homeland couldnt be to aly wrong!!! At least to the U.S. Marine Corps Forces Special Operations Command (MARSOC), there is no longer a question. Indeed, physiological factors play a very small part in rapid incapacitation of a target. The gunman was able to inflict such extensive damage from across a baseball field because he was using a semiautomatic rifle that may have qualified as an assault weapon, akin to a standard infantry combat weapon. quick defense trigger and has an extended 17rnd clip. The FBI Training Division reported in May 2014 that officers, on average, strike an adversary with only 20 percent to 30 percent of the shots fired during a shooting incident. Keep in mind that fragmentation does sometimes occur, however, it cannot be relied upon. With those factors in mind, Id prefer one of the calibers most likely to immediately incapacitate and prevent return fire. Thats not the kind of performance Im looking for. It has a velocity of 1200-1600 ft/s and energy of 140-160 Joules. Startle affect. According to a sweeping 2016 survey, there were, at that time, more guns in the hands of Americans than there are cars on the road. Do your thing, your responsible for your actions! Wouldnt waste my money on it. Steel BB (0.170" ball bearing) at 200 ft/s will make a hole, but will not penetrate 4" plate glass. 15 round magazine is better than a 7 round magazine. I had a neighbor when I lived outside Fort Worth. That said today I only carry my 5th gen Glock 19. Still, no one should select a caliber based on the assumption that it will expand sufficiently to incapacitate an assailant. I see no problem with any branch of the U.S. military using the 9mm, but they need to go back and annul the Hague Commission signing. You can read all the FBI reports and all the ballistic gel crap you want. So, is the 9mm the ultimate handgun around? Keep in mind, competing for government contracts is expensive, time-consuming, and maintaining an awarded contract can be a royal pain in the you-know-what! WebIn a perforating wound, the bullet creates an exit wound as it escapes the body. Which would put a bullet in the lower chest area with variance of the bullet which can be 2-3 or even 5-6. That changed for me Dec of 2017. Clothing fibers can wrap the nose of a projectile, preventing expansion. Experiences on the streets say otherwise. Note how velocity is squared, and mass is halved. I much prefer the 45 acp and have used it on game from deer to moose and it always was my go to gun. WebAs shown in Fig. Smith & Wesson Model 26 | Project: Aftermath Wiki | Fandom First off, its important to understand what the term refers to. When someone has a weapon to defend themselves the adrenaline factor comes in play on both sides but the one with the tracing and experience should come out ok and most of the time the neighborhood thug doesnt have the training etc. Just came down from AK and bears and mad moose have been my biggest issue. But a .45/70 at 1597 fps equals a .270 Win at 3200 fps ballistically on impact and follow through. The deers shot with 9 ran and ran far compared to the short distance the 45 shot deer covered (100yds or less). The body's liver, pancreas and kidneys also can make about 1 gram of creatine per day. I do think a close range the 45 ACP will knock someone down where ever you hit them. For me the thing that has always solved this debate is simple. Still, I think when we're talking about pistol caliber handguns, it's pretty hard to measure any substantial accuracy differences when we're rarely shooting at distances greater than 15-25 yards if that. My Kimber .45 is one of my favorite pistols EVER, but its heavy and only has 8 rounds. WebThe human body can survive relatively high blast overpressure without experiencing barotrauma. Immediately retired the Glock 17 and requalified with a Glock 21 Gen 4 after a long break. Tests show that while it travels at 1,154 feet per second at 500 yards, slower than the .223 at that distance, the AKs bullet can deliver 370 foot-pounds of force, more than the AR. If you shoot someone through the skull with a .22 rimfire and penetrate their brain, you will almost certainly immediately incapacitate them. https://www.policeone.com/police-heroes/articles/6199620-Why-one-cop-carries-145-rounds-of-ammo-on-the-job/, http://bearingarms.com/bob-o/2015/07/08/u-s-military-makes-monumental-shift-hollowpoint-pistol-ammunition/, https://www.ammoland.com/2018/02/defense-against-bears-with-pistols-97-success-rate-37-incidents-by-caliber/, Victim Uses Awareness And a Gun to End Armed Attacker, S8E5: The Battle over Gun Registration & Assault Weapon Ban Rages On, Man Disarmed And Shot With Own Handgun in Parking Lot, Finally a Holster for the SIRT Pocket Pistol, Watch This Before You Shoot Your Pistol!! Now good defensive hollow point is a different story. Meaning the shooter, where a second shot will go off up in the air. Oh, and Sgt. Trauma surgeons, the guys actually opening up peoples chests and trying to put them back together, say otherwise. I have yet to see any really legit fair and unbiased comparison of the 9mm and 45acp calibers. I have small hands for a guy but I have no problems with accuracy. Bullets can also increase the surface area that transfers energy to targets by expanding, as in the case of hollow-point rounds. We put our money behind the 9mm round fired by an extremely well-trained marksman carrying a Glock 19, Mannweiler told Marine Corps Times. We all, sitting safe and pretty, can discuss this and that but we are NOT in their shoes. So its definitely capable. In the last 30 years, the FBI has moved from .38/.357 caliber revolvers to 9mm semi-automatics. Since doing some research on the new ammo for the .380 acp, Ive decided that 17-22 of penetration from Lehigh & Ruger Personal Defense rounds, I carry the Browning Black Label .380. Better get that imagination under control, tough guy! The best gun is the one that is best in your hands not best someone elses hands. Theres no reason to mince words a handgun for self defense exists to create damage to the human body. Long time reloader right here as well which is why I couldnt believe when I read what I did in that other articleclearly someone that doesnt understand how these things work!! Hydrostatic shock But thats me. Multiple hits are extraordinarily unlikely. I dont have a dog in that race but it is important to give proper information, not just anything that will satisfy your viewpoint no matter how erroneous. Lexipol. When the cavalry at the time switched to the .45 round, the round was effective in doing enough damage to put them down more effectively. When they enter the body, they spread out into a star-shaped pattern that enhances the damage caused by the wound channel. During the last 15 years in LE, I have seen literally dozens of gun shot wounds. Liver problems can also be caused by a variety of factors that damage the liver, such as viruses, alcohol use and obesity. Small, light, and more rugged than a lot plastic guns. I would easily give credit to the Colt 45 on reliability accuracy and range, my 9mm all it really does better is shoot faster because it has a 4 lb. While each of them has no direct bearing on incapacitation, they must all be considered. That alone could be a convincing argument to switch platforms. Much more likely is that you will be suddenly and unexpectedly attacked by a rapidly and unpredictably moving target with limited opportunities for counter attack. While the tissue affected by the temporary cavity isnt completely destroyed like that in the direct path of the bullet, it does suffer trauma, especially if the bullet travels past less-flexible parts of the body, like bone or dense organs like the liver, which can shatter or rupture from the shockwave. Also another fact is that my Kimber Colt 45 actually has less recoil than my 9mm with an aluminum frame when my 9mm has a full steel from. I also reload/handload have shot competitively and have hunted all my life. When fragmentation occurs, the permanent cavity expands rapidly and dramatically. Now that you know where I am coming from. More rounds the better. And other trauma surgeons are on record as saying that they cannot tell the difference between wounds caused by 9mm, .40 S&W, or .45 ACP. Generous readers sustain our work. .45 ACP 10 Round Magazine mobility debuff removed, and .45 ACP 17 Round Magazine mobility increased from 96% to 98%. Firing Modes: Semi-auto. So In a effort to accommodate all soldiers they switched to a milder recoiling 9mm round. Not to suggest that a skilled shooter (and/or soldier or Marine) couldnt shoot it, but almost anybody is going to be faster with a 9mm in their hands. The kidneys separate this material from the blood. Witch in reality are only good enough to fight yourself to a long gun I have 2 Henry levers that shoot the same .357 having 3 weapons. He watched MARSOC during a multi-national special forces competition, MARSOC couldnt compete with the low capacity 1911. It got up and walked about 25 yards before falling. Practice is key. Have you ever saw the wound track from a .230 hst. If knock down power is desired forget the 45 and get a 44 mag or get a 375 they kill most anything one shot. If that were true, we would only have one size Shoe, Clothing Etc. Ive been training for 50+ years and continue to do so. The concern that a round will pass through an assailant and harm an innocent bystander is largely exaggerated. But its easy tell which one of you are the idiots, and those of us that actually know are trying to skate uphill teaching those that dont. One thing to note is that for more most applications the military is restricted to FMJ loads. Adamantinomatous craniopharyngioma cyst fluid can trigger to a target, which ripples out as a shockwave through tissue as the bullet plows through the body, leaving a cavity in its wake. All righty then, I started with 38 caliber revolvers in the early 70s, 53 yrs later, since few people carry revolvers, capacity, I have bounced back and forth and keep ammo for both 9mm and 45. But I have some serious doubts about his understanding of external and terminal ballistics. Let us know your thoughts in the comments below! I can buy that. Its a High Point .40S&W. Having fired 45 ACP and 9mm at human targets the 9 took 3 sometimes 4 hits c.o.m. The money has to come from somewhere. I have had to fire both and knowing that the 9 mm is a lighter piece of lead compared to the 45 ACP it is all about placement then. Spread the word; knowledge is power! So many guns so little time! That problem is solved by making more of a bullets surface area actually come in contact with its target. I prefer 45 revolvers. Now marine I hope your watching now instead of using glock 19 in a 9mm counterpart here is a better suggestion why dont you use a glock 21 4th gene to insure ur fellow colleges a better a faster on the spot accuracy with zero recoil it will enable them to be more successful in hitting targets. It worries me that you feel safe carrying a .45 acp around bears and moose. The 9mm leaves the muzzle on average at 1100 feet per second, NOT 1500. The Human Torso Test. Kimber 1911 Rapide Dawn .45 ACP Pistol $ 1649 99 1649 dollars 99 cents. I also am a NRA Certified Instructor and gunsmith in Colorado. You do your failure drill. Both really do not muster up for the Marines. In the end public opinion and perception has a great deal to do with defense decisions. WebThey could balance it by decreasing the damage of other pistol cartridges, like for example, Intermediate cartridges like 7.62x39/5.56x45 could one tap the upper torso and 2 tap lower torso, the .45 ACP could 2 tap torso, dealing just shy the amount of damage required to kill upper torso, include a large penalty with that. So you better have the biggest heaviest bullet going down range that you can possibly get. They should provide officers who can control the larger weapons a choice about which pistol they are permitted to carry. Everywhere else, you have only a chance of incapacitating your target. I know they dont keep records like this; but if you could count all the rounds fired in a battle, and how many kills were made by each caliber; would that not be a better indicator of the efficiency of the caliber. Your skull is very thick in places (base of the skull) and some bullets arent designed for that kind of penetration. My opinion, for whatever its worth, is that were all overthinking this. This is why officers typically carry as many shoulder weapons as possible in their cars. WebActually, three different types of pressure change appear: (1) shock wave pressures or sharp, high pressure pulses, formed when the missile hits the body surface; (2) very high pressure regions immediately in front and to each side of the moving missile; (3) relatively slow, low pressure changes connected with the behavior of the large explosive You might be able to talk to the first guy. Theres also the reaction of a surprise. While 9mm is not as good at killing men as the 45 Auto, it is smaller, lighter, cheaper, easier to handle, and allows more opportunities to miss the target.. Confirmed by projectiles taken out of Papa. For me I have a 9mm that is concealable as well as my AR15 223 and like some of the others on here I would rather us my 15. In his 1989 treatise, Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness, Supervisory Special Agent Urey Patrick explained that the goal of an officer in a life-threatening shooting incident is to incapacitate the adversary as quickly as possible. Heating effects, occurring mostly around 2.45 GHz (which is the frequency used in microwave ovens) Ionizing effects, which can damage human body and cells; Here is a picture of how the radiowaves penetrate the human body according to the frequency. During each tour I was personally involved multiple combat engagements. sledgehammer. So you can rely on us to provide quality pre-owned weapons backed by our famous guarantee. An entrance wound is surrounded by a reddish-brown area of abraded skin, known as the abrasion ring, and small amounts of blood escape through. But the US never officially ratified these protocols, and is not officially bound by them. thanks for your time, greg. I know a LEO that works in Mendocino County CA. Contrary to popular belief, there is no such thing as knock-down power. The only thing that can knock a target down is physiological incapacitation or psychological stress. The story makes that even sound too few. The will to live and fight varies from person-to-person. Through and through shots were the issue and the 9 just bounced of bones and exited. The role of the gun industry in Americas gun violence epidemic. WOUND BALLISTICS - Motion and Effects of Projectiles in the .45 Magazine type M1911 mag.45 ACP: Damage 1389 Blood: Fire modes Semi Shots to kill body: 3 head: 1 Effective range 50/100 m Rate of fire moderate Recoil Moderat Noise Moderate His logic was that if there ever were a scene where they got into a firefight and one deputy ran out of ammo any of the others could provide him with one of their spare mags. I can not remember a single specific instance of someone shot with JHP, where I knew for a fact at the time what I was looking at. The Simple Physics That Makes Some Bullets Deadlier Than I have a medical issue that makes it easier for me to carry a double action in a very small package. 45 ACP WHICH HANDGUN ROUND HAS THE BEST STOPPING POWER? I hadnt even gotten halfway through the article before coming to the same conclusion. Hollow points are designed to rapidly expand after hitting a target, causing as much damage as possible and reducing the chance of overpenetration. With civilians Mosher shootings occur within 7 yards thats 21 feet are closer usually closer. In this article, we will present what we believe to be the most credible information regarding wound ballistics from studies conducted by the FBIs Firearms Training Academy in legendary Quantico, Virginia. I have also read that the 124gr NATO round is a +P. unless the guy is coming at you with body armor, if you have more than three bullets in your gun you dont really have a lot to worry about. The paramedics said he probably would not live. Now call me a troll as I suspect you may be in love with your clunky Glock and .9mm round. There is little or no noticeable difference in wound tracks between 9mm Luger, .40 S&W and .45 Auto premium line rounds. That much is true. Riley has trained extensively under instructors such as: Rob Leatham, Mike Seeklander, Tim Herron, Scott Jedlinski, Matt Little, Kyle Lamb, Dave Spaulding, Jeff Gonzales, Bill Blowers, Chuck Pressburg, and others, amassing many hundreds of hours of formal shooting and tactics training. Also my pattern emptying a clip rapidly against someone with a 9mm, Ill win that as well all day everyday! Space radiation is made up of protons and all the elements on the periodic table. It doesnt get more damaging that that. So I want a round that will do the trick no matter if he flinches or I do. I never miss. I dont know if the recoil might throw me off. Durys Gun Shop has served San Antonio and the South Texas region for half a century. We carried 19 rounds of 9mm in combat. The best stopping power is a complex mix of many different factors, including how fast the round is traveling and what it does when it enters the attackers body. Take this for what its worth. Nobody I know whos been in the service liked the M9. Wondering if these Marine special operators are not only allowed but required to carry exclusively the 15-round Glock 19, why not the slightly larger and higher capacity Glock 17? Either will get the job done for protection. And I am surprised that this was not mentioned. Officers carried them in case their security was breached, and when the enemy was upon them, the kock down power was vital in saving their life.

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